Since this is the season of ‘giving’, we wanted to share with you that there can be many wonderful gifts that come about as a result of taking the healing journey.  They may not seem apparent at first, but gradually can be revealed as you move further through processing your experience.   To enable the healing process to begin often requires initial validation of your experience by others (whether that’s in real life, or via reading articles and women’s stories that resonate with your own), and developing an understanding of the nature of birth trauma.  It then takes courage, strength, and a lot of support to take further steps to heal, but the gifts to you, and to your family, can be huge.

We wanted to end this brief post with an email we received one year, as Christmas approached.  It really demonstrates the possibilities that taking the healing journey can offer, and we offer the below email as a message of hope. This woman attended our “Healing From Birth” support group, and, with much courage and strength, faced her traumatic first birth. She has since gone on, with Deb as her doula, to have a challenging, yet empowering second birth.  We feel greatly privileged to have been a part of her journey.

Dear Deb and Melissa
I am so grateful to the two of you for the amazing support you have provided me.  Over the past six months, since first coming to Birthtalk, I have slowly but surely fallen in love with my beautiful son.

Last Christmas I was so looking forward to going on holiday so that I could hand my little boy over to the grandparents and my husband to look after, and I could get some space from him.

This Christmas I am so looking forward to playing with my darling boy on the beach and spending time as a family.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I cannot put into words just how highly I value the two of you.  I hope that you have a very  wonderful, Happy Christmas with your families.
Best wishes

Angela

We encourage all of you to keep going, keep asking questions, keep nurturing yourself and keep valuing the importance of your experience of birth in relation to everything that comes after it.

We look forward to seeing you all in the New Year.

Season’s Greetings from Melissa and Deb at Birthtalk.org

©Birthtalk.org 2011

We want to make it clear that it is NOT necessary to have another baby to heal previous births.  Many women who have finished their families come to our “Healing From Birth” sessions, and undertake the healing process, with the goal of moving back to their families more present and complete.

However, other women attend Birthtalk because they DO want more children…and desperately need to hear that they never have to go through something like their previous birth again. And we are happy to say that it IS possible to have a positive subsequent birth after a traumatic birth.  We know this from our own personal experiences, & we see it month after month, via our work with the women of Birthtalk…which brings us to Emmy’s story.

Introducing Emmy

Four years ago we met Emmy – a woman wanting to work through her birth experiences and perhaps, just perhaps, have another baby.  Recently, we posted a photo of her beautiful vaginal birth after two caesareans (VBA2C) on our Facebook page, and received some lovely comments of congratulations, excitement, and women sharing how she gives them hope for their own upcoming births.  We wanted to share more of Emmy’s photos and story, but did not want to ask Emmy for her birth story yet, as she has a 5 week old baby as well as 3 young children!

We began to look back through our records, and in doing so, we realised that the series of communications between Birthtalk and Emmy over the past four years tell a beautiful story in themselves.  Each email reveals more of Emmy’s personal journey as she faced her previous births, and wrestled with the urge to have another baby.

With Emmy’s permission, we have put together a very personal ‘paperchase’, dating from her first contact with Birthtalk in 2007, through to her triumphant email sharing her news of her amazing VBA2C last month (complete with some gorgeous pics!)…

Emails From Emmy

From: Emmy
Date: Wed, 1  Aug 2007
To : Birthtalk

Hi Melissa & Deb
Just letting you know that I will be attending your ‘Healing from Birth’ meeting Tuesday 14th.  This will be my first meeting.

I have two & half year old (boy/girl) twins & also a 6 month old daughter.  I had a caesarean for both pregnancies  (first being told -at my first ever appointment- by my dr that he didn’t deliver twins vaginally & didn’t know anyone else that did either –  unfortunately for me as I would have loved to trial labour, I believed him)  then my second pregnancy I changed Dr & was very happy with him (was  trying for a vbac) then found my baby had turned breech at 39wks, he turned  her back but again unfortunately at my 40wk check, she had turned back again  & he was unable to turn her again.  Therefore this resulted in  another caesar which was really scary for me & the last thing that I  wanted as I had haemorrhaged after having the twins & had a blood  transfusion & had my ridiculous dr announce in front of me that if the  bleeding didn’t stop that they would have to take me in for a hysterectomy!   I find myself thinking, ‘well maybe labour wasn’t meant for me’.

I am constantly wondering what labour feels like, & I suppose feel as though I have missed out on something.  My husband & I had decided that this would have been our last baby but now I just feel like I am  not ready to make that decision.  Not knowing whether I actually want another child or I want another ‘go’ at birth, makes me feel really confused.   To top it off my 6 mth old daughter developed reflux at 3 wks & refused to feed from me, although I did manage to persevere until 2mths, I  also feel like I didn’t do enough or get enough help to continue to  breastfeed, as I would love to still be feeding her now.
Sorry to go on  & on, I know this is what the meetings are about, but it felt pretty good to just get that all out, as no-one understands.  My husband tries to but he can’t help it if he is male, & they just don’t know.  I have a close family but one of my sisters is of the opinion that if mum & bub are healthy, that’s all that matters.  My mum tries to understand but I’m not sure to what extent she actually does, then that gets me onto my other sister.   She is the one who told me about you & your meetings & actually has attended.
When I did hear about you & reading your explanation about the healing from birth meetings, I thought it was exactly what I needed.   I think it is a wonderful thing that you are doing & should be really praised to want to help people the way you do.
I am really looking forward to the meeting,

Emmy

Unfortunately, Emmy came down sick, as well as her three children, so was unable to make it to the August session.  It was another seven months before she made it to her first  “Healing From Birth” meeting.  In the meantime, she began to explore her options for birthing after two previous caesareans at our other meetings.  She RSVP’d for our event to honour National Caesarean Awareness Day 2007, where we shared VBAC Birth Stories, a Positive Caesarean Birth Story, and gathered to acknowledge how a caesarean birth can touch a woman’s life.

From: Emmy
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007
Subject: Birthing after Caesarean Seminar
Hi Melissa

I am interested in this Caesarean Awareness Night, just wondering if you can give me some info about it?
I think I need to concentrate at the moment on healing from my 2 births (both caesars) anyway, but am really curious to find out where & who would trial a vbac for me (if my husband & I decide to have a 4th baby).                                           

Emmy

Emmy attended the Caesarean Awareness Night with her sister, and listened to speakers that included Kelly talking about her journey from traumatic caesarean to homebirth VBAC, as well as Cas sharing her positive caesarean story, and Andrea sharing her triumphant and empowering VBAC after two traumatic caesareans.

From: Emmy
Date: Wed, 10  Oct 2007
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Thank  You

Thanks  so much for the Caesarean Awareness Night last night.  It was so wonderful  & inspiring to hear Kelly, Cas  & Andrea’s stories.  Both my sister & I came away unable to stop chatting about it all (I got home at midnight  & think I chewed my husbands ear off for about an hour!).

I would love to come to next weeks ‘Healing from BIrth’ meeting.  Could you please email me the details.        

Thanks again,

Emmy

From: Emmy
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: VBAC Course

Hi Melissa & Deb

Just wondering if there is any spaces left for my husband & I to attend the whole VBAC/Antenatal Course starting 21st Feb???  If you could let me know asap would be great so I can arrange Grandma to look after the kids!!
Have emailed back & forth quite a bit with Melissa, & have been trying to attend a ‘Healing from Birth’ Meeting, but haven’t been able to get there yet.
I came along to your caesarean awareness night last year (thanks again).  I have 3 year old twins & a 1 year old also, all born by caesarean.  We are trying to decide when would be the ‘right’ time to try for our 4th, & I just want to be as prepared as possible coming into it all in order to achieve our goal.  So would absolutely love to attend this VBAC course!!
Many thanks,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Emmy

Emmy and Richard began attending Birthalk’s VBAC Course, and at the second meeting heard a woman named Lisa speak about her experiences.  Lisa had birthed twin boys via caesarean at 25 weeks, and sadly only one twin survived.  After attending Birthtalk, Lisa went on to birth her daughter in an empowering hospital VBAC, and had come to share her story to the Course Attendees.

From: Emmy
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Tonight’s Meeting

Hi Melissa & Deb ,

WOW
Just gotten home from tonight’s meeting & I feel so excited! So emotional & just on a real high.  I feel like I got so much out of the meeting tonight.  I really felt a connection with Lisa,  which is probably why I feel so great.  Everything she was saying felt just like what runs through my mind.  Her stories (as everyone felt also) were just so wonderful & inspiring & as I said tonight, EXCITING.  I am just so in awe of her & how she has come to the place she has, in herself, after hearing her stories, she just looks so happy.  In hearing her speak has given me a real confidence & clarity with other aspects that have been circling in my mind, not just with birth.  So thank you so much for introducing Lisa, I think she would have made everyone feel as I do.

I am so new to all this, opening up & getting out there doing this for myself (for my family).  I have been so wanting to come to one of your Healing from Birth meetings since I found out about you, but have let something always conveniently get in the way of allowing me to come.  Which is really just hiding behind the fact that I am scared & lack the confidence to step out on my own to experience this.  It seems easy when I came to the caesarean awareness night with my Sister & now to the vbac course with Richard.
You both should be so proud of yourselves & the absolute wonderful job you are doing by trying to help all these people.  I just can’t get over how helpful you are & that it isn’t a job, but a passion.  To hear you both speak so passionately about pregnancy/labour, birth & beyond is inspiring.  You always make me feel that you understand me & what I am saying & that you are genuinely interested.  You are really achieving what you have set out to do & that is something to be very proud of.

Sorry I am really rambling on, still on a high after the meeting.
I once thought that I’d never be able to find out what I needed in order to try to achieve what I want, but am thinking that now it could be me there telling my story down the track just like Lisa.

Thanks for giving me this high, I feel like I just want to go & wake up all my kids just to cuddle them & tell them I love them – but I won’t, can probably wait 6 hrs until they wake.

Emmy

At the VBAC Course, we presented a video montage showing photos of Birthtalk mums who have birthed again after a previous caesarean – many VBAC, but not all – and had a positive, empowering experience.  We asked those attending to review the video clip, and here is Emmy’s response :

 Watching that DVD makes me so emotional but in such a good way.  It makes my mind wander in a dream-like way & I start to picture that its me, & that I could  experience that also, WOW, so exciting to be starting that  journey.   As I journey to another birth, it puts my dream into  perspective & makes it feel achievable. The insight it has given me in healing from my previous births is that it is possible to heal, it is very evident looking at their faces.
Emmy   March 2008

Finally, Emmy was able to make it to a Healing From Birth meeting.  Her insights from the VBAC Course were coming into play as she was learning more about birth, and how her own births had affected her emotionally, and she was beginning the process of healing. 

 From: Emmy
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008
To: Birthtalk
Hi Melissa
Still feel very clouded about it all but I am really glad that I made the ‘giant leap’ (which is what it feels like to me) into coming to a healing from birth meeting.
Just wanted to let you know that one thing that stood out the most to me is that when you suggested to write the ‘WHY I DON’T WANT ANOTHER CAESAREAN’ list.  It just made sense to do that & driving home all I could think about was writing this list, which I have done already.  I did think that it would be longer but it seems the most important things came out without really thinking about them.  It makes me wonder whether the order that they came into my mind is actually the order of how much I feel about these things.  Does that make sense?  Anyway I can see how, with time to heal how some of these things on the list may or may not take new meaning, or not actually be there at all.  Which is, I suppose, what you & Deb are actually trying to show me, that regardless of my future birth outcome that I won’t feel these things again.  I just want to bring my baby into the world the way nature intended, & at this stage I just don’t see how I will ever get past this if I wasn’t able to have it. URRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, thank you & Deb again for tonight, always great to listen to you both.
Emmy

At the next session in our VBAC Course that Emmy and her husband were attending, we noticed Emmy seemed to  be struggling with her emotions.  As they left immediately after the meeting we did not get a chance to chat with her, so we emailed her :

 From:  Birthtalk
To: Emmy
Sent: Sunday, March 30
Subject: Hi Emmy

Hey, Emmy – just wanted to touch base with you after Thursday’s meeting…I got the feeling you were struggling towards the end of the meeting, and I did not get a chance to chat with you afterwards.  I just wanted to let you know that both Deb and I can completely understand your feelings of frustration and being overwhelmed at the lengths we sometimes have to go to, to have a good birth, in our culture.  It is completely understandable that you feel this way, considering your previous experiences and the insights you have been having lately.

Anyway – just wanted to see how you are going
Melissa

From: Emmy
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hi Emmy

Hi Melissa
Thanks so much for thinking of me, it really means a lot.
Yes, I was quite negative during & after Thursdays meeting.  I actually felt quite horrible about how negatively  I might have come across to the other people there.  I  said to Richard on the way home that I felt like the ‘prickle’ amongst the group.  Coming to the vbac/antenatel course has been a real eye opener for us & so wonderfully inspiring & informative, & coming to it has made me see how much healing that I really need to do.  I didn’t really realise what I was going through until now.  Since we first started thinking about possibly having a 4th baby, I have kinda been in a hurry about it all.  Wanting it to happen asap (was aiming to be pregnant towards the end of the year) & all I could think about was having another baby & birth etc.  Now I know that I have already started healing because I don’t feel that way anymore, that I am not needing to ‘fix’ my other births.  I have looked back at life since Matilda was born & realised what she & I have missed & although I can’t change that, I can make our relationship different now.  So my thoughts now are that when Wil & Olivia start kindy/pre-prep next year, thats a chance for some real special Mummy & Tilly time, which I am really looking forward to.  If we decided to try for a baby this year then I would never have that chance again.
Although pregnancy & birth is still in my mind, it isn’t consuming me anymore.  I am trying my best to focus on my beautiful 3 children that I have now & trying to bring out the best in myself to be the sort of Mother that I am proud of being.  So as much as I am loving the v-bac course, I am ‘hanging’ for your healing from birth meetings even more now.  So put me down as a regular!!!

Thanks again.  I am ok, thanks to you & Deb.  I know all the different feelings that I am having are helping me to heal & that even though sometimes I am left feeling angry, frustrated, negative & upset, these feelings are just as important as the ‘good’ ones, even though the good ones feel so much better!
Honestly, even if you & Deb didn’t say anything to me when I spoke, just by looking at you both makes me feel totally understood & valued.
Emmy

A month later, after another session in the VBAC Course, Emmy emailed with some more insights she was having into her healing journey…

From: Emmy
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008
To: Birthtalk

Hey Melissa
Thanks for the meeting tonight.  When its time to go around the circle, you always thank everyone for coming & I always say to myself ‘Gee, we should be thanking her & Deb, here they are giving their time to help us, educate us & support us & receive emails at midnight!!’

The meeting seemed back to where it started, smaller & more intimate in a way.  Its nice to see the familiar faces & hear their stories again.  Sometimes I just don’t feel like delving into my story too much.  I suppose it feels like I am re-visiting it again & again & not really getting anywhere in regards to ‘getting over it’.  Do you think that you ever really get over it?

Which brings me to the reason I suppose for this email.  I just feel really lost again.  My mind is constantly changing about what I want regarding another baby.  I have actually avoided talking to you both regarding how I would go trying for a v-bac after 2 c-sect (twins & haemorrhage then another c-sect.)   I have been too afraid to ask in the case that what I find out, might help to make my mind up & speed things up for me, when I know that I still have negatives creeping in from my previous births.  I know that I need to heal but am getting frustrated with that.  I sometimes feel like I just don’t want to think about it anymore or deal with it, because when I do it totally consumes me.

Am I making sense?  I know that I really should give Deb a call & I will push myself to do so on Monday.  I have been avoiding calling Deb, only for the reason that I have to face what I am going through & actually talk about it.  After the meetings, I so want to hang around as you all seem to do & chat but I really don’t know why I don’t.  I think it seems easier at the time to just go & cut myself off, but then I am left feeling this way, not being able to shut off from it at all.

One thing you said tonight that really saddened me was how you said that Deb firmly believes that parenting flows on from all that happen in birth.   I guess at the moment, I’m not feeling very confident in my parenting & I know that there is a lot stemming from their births that is affecting me now with them.  I know this is all part of the healing process, I think I am just getting impatient.

As I said tonight, I feel a confidence in heading into another pregnancy now from what I have learnt from Birthtalk, but still have a negative feeling that is linked to all that also.  I suppose I am still comparing & haven’t moved on from those births yet.

Thank you so much for just reading this.  I know how busy you must be, & I already feel a little lighter in getting all that out!
Have a lovely long weekend, see you next week.
Emmy

We replied to Emmy’s email, and an excerpt is below :
I should clarify Deb’s comment about the parenting   – what Deb believes is that birth is designed to give you practice in the skills we need for parenting, so that if you don’t get those lessons in birth, there is potential for you to start a bit ‘behind the 8-ball” and have to learn them a harder way.  I know you have been having a rough ride with your twins lately – I can imagine it must be very full-on sometimes.  Parenting is hard work, and parenting consciously is even harder – (but so worth it).  I love the way you are facing the challenge and looking for answers.

Melissa

From: Emmy
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hi Emmy

Thanks so much (again),you truly understand & make everything seem so clear.
I think how I feel really is coming down to my ‘hurry’ to have another baby, which when I really think about it, another baby isn’t what I want at the moment.  I have enough challenging me at this stage, & I don’t actually feel ready for a change in our family at this stage.
My fear is that the longer that we wait to have another baby, that we may actually decide not to have another then I will never experience birth.  Which, in reading this makes it sound that what I actually want is ‘birth’ not another baby.  Which is really scary to think that may be true…
Another thing is also that there is a 10yr age gap between Richard & I, so with me turning 30 this year isn’t a issue, but Richard is turning 40, which to us is a contributing factor in having another baby or not & when.
In reading back on what I have written, I know that continuing on my healing process will probably clarify what I was talking about above, whether I need to experience birth to be truly happy or whether regardless of the birth outcome, that having another baby will make me truly happy.
So thank you again, I am feeling quite content with what my situation is & the process, today that is, tomorrow might just be totally different, another layer of the onion perhaps!!
See you Thursday (bit sad that its the last night of the course),
Emmy

After the last night of the VBAC Course, Emmy emailed us after she arrived home.  She talks in her email of Romi – a Birthtalk mum who at that time was pregnant with twins, and working hard to have an empowering vaginal birth. 

From: Emmy
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008
To: Birthtalk

Melissa & Deb, you’re Champions!
Tonight, instead of feeling lost, stuck & scared of where I am & what I am going through, I feel like ‘bring it on’!!!! That I know that I need to really let go & feel all these emotions that are creeping around & that I feel ok about letting that happen.  During the meeting I just felt sad, sad for all that I have missed & that I can never change that, but I now want to be ok with knowing that I can’t change it & become accepting.
I suppose I let myself really ‘feel’ for the first time tonight, although I know I was holding back.  I just don’t think I felt terribly comfortable totally letting go there in front of that group.  That’s what I was trying to say to you after the meeting, that I just don’t feel that especially the first-timers need to be exposed to my full extent of emotion, or maybe that’s just my way of saying that it wasn’t ready to totally come out yet????  But then in saying that, hearing our stories makes those first-timers even more determined to not experience what many of us have.
I just keep thinking about Romi, I suppose its the twin connection.  I’d love to email her, maybe I could send you an email & you forward it onto her for me?  I would just love to tell her how brave I think she is & how much I admire her (& secretly wishing that it was me having that chance again) for becoming aware & informed before it is too late.  Any pregnancy is a journey but what she is going through is such a truly beautiful & special one, & she & her husband will need each other more than anything once those babies are out & it is full-on, but arming herself with what she knows already & wanting the positive & empowering experience that she wants will put her so in front.  Anyway…
Its really interesting when you said that maybe Tilly is sensing something from me & wanting to sleep with us again.  When I walked upstairs from getting home tonight, she was crying & I had already made a conscious decision to go & check (kiss & tell them I love them) the kids before heading to the lounge room to say hi to Mum.  But it was like Tilly knew that in a way & was telling me to come to her by crying out for me when I just got in the door.  Maybe just a big coincidence, but I’d rather believe my first theory!
Again thank you so very much, you have really touched my heart & although it is because of a painful thing that I am going through, it also makes space in there for my heart to smile : )
Talk to you soon,
Emmy xx

A few months after the VBAC Course ended, we emailed Emmy as a follow-up on some issues, and received this reply :

From: Emmy
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hi, Emmy from Birthtalk

I think I have been keeping busy, & have pushed my baby thoughts & births way back to somewhere that I haven’t needed to think about for a while, pretty much since the course finished.  I have actually intended on still coming to Healing from BIrth,  but we have either been away or just arrived home when they have been on, so it has never been suitable to come.  Plus like I said, those thoughts & feelings have been buried again.  OR should I say, HAD been buried again, have resurfaced in the past week or so.  It all still seems too hard to even go there, which I know that coming to Healing meetings will help, so should be there next Tuesday.
I don’t know what has triggered it but I am really thinking about another baby again.  For a while there, I had thoughts that we might not have another now it all seems so hard again.
Anyway thanks for thinking about me, has given me the push I think that I needed to continue on my journey of healing.
Take care, see you next week hopefully, 

Emmy

From: Emmy
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject:  Thursday

Thanks again for last week’s Healing from Birth meeting.  It really helped to clear my mind & now I feel so ‘together’ in regards to all my feelings.  Hope that makes sense.  Thanks so much to you & Deb, I know I have said it before, but you both really are such amazing & wondeful people.  You both have made me feel so valued & understood & saying thanks doesn’t seem like enough.

I actually contacted Nambour Selangor Hospital the other day & the midwife I spoke with was so helpful & answered all my questions in detail.  We have decided when the time is right, that we will going up there.  Even if things don’t go to plan, at least we will know that they will be trying to do all they can to give us the best possible experience & that they do know what is important to families.

Emmy

A month later, we announced the arrival of Romi’s twins in our Newsletter.  Romi had attended our course with Emmy, & had Deb from Birthtalk as her doula, and had a wonderfully empowering vaginal birth with her twins at Selangor Hospital. 

From: Emmy
Date: Wed, 20  Aug 2008
To: Birthtalk 

Hey Melissa

Just read  the newsletter & I was so excited to see Romi & Trent & their  beautiful twin girls!  I am so happy for them (& I suppose still a  bit jealous) that they had the experience they did.  Wow, thats pretty  much all I can say!  Thanks so much for the newsletter, I can never read  it fast enough!
See you tomorrow,
Emmy

From: Birthtalk
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008
To: Emmy                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject:  Re:

Hi, Emmy – I’m so glad you emailed  I was  actually wanting to email you too when the newsletter went out, because I knew  you’d be excited, and maybe a bit envious (completely natural & reasonable  that you would be),  and that it might bring up some stuff.  Romi is  writing her full story, so that will be interesting to read too I’m glad  you like the newsletter:)

Hope to see you soon,
Melissa

Emmy then emailed straight back :

Hey Melissa
Its wierd you know, I was so excited to read about them & so happy for them but still felt some of my own crap also.  I was talking to Richard about it, & I know he means well, but he went on to say stuff about having a healthy family etc.  I suppose I have realised that although I am feeling better than I did about my situation , I still have stuff to work through.  I hate feeling this resentful feeling that I do when I think back to my births.  I don’t feel the fear anymore that I once did, but still think that it all just sucks that it could have been so different right from the start if I just asked more questions of my doctor.   My situation could have been so different now, but I have to stop thinking about the ‘if onlys’ & get on with what I can control or at least go into it all with confidence.
Another thing is that I am not rushing to have another baby, the time just doesn’t feel right yet & I am ok with that.  I know that I need to feel ready for a change in the family & I feel content right now trying to care for what I have got.
Talk to you soon
Emmy

We didn’t hear from Emmy for another six months, until she emailed with a big question… “How do you know when you’ve finished your family?”

From: Emmy
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Hello

I have a question to ask. I am feeling really torn now between wanting another baby & the experiences that come along with that – pregnancy, the big one BIRTH, & the beautiful newborn stage & then feeling like I am content with the Family I have & happy to continue along trying to be the best Mother that I can be to them.  I realise that is a pretty personal question I asked you & totally understand if you don’t want to reply to it.  I just wonder if most Mothers have similar feelings to me in wanting to experience all that again & again but knowing that sometime the decision has to be made in when to stop.  I know in my situation that I am also spurred on by wanting to experience all I can possible in Birth & what I missed in my previous Births, but those feelings don’t seem quite enough to push me into having another baby anymore.  But then the question still hovers around.  Is this a good thing?  Have I actually moved through the pain & disappointment I was feeling in regards to what I have missed out on previously & know that I don’t need that to feel ok anymore?  Wow, I hadn’t realised any of that before I typed it just then.  I have always been able to really express myself when chatting & emailing to you – thank you for being so great : )

Do you think when the time is right,  I will know what to do?  I try to believe that, but can’t help wonder whether everyone feels like this at some stage & in time moves through it.  Richard & I have both kinda thought that if we didn’t have another baby this year then most likely we wouldn’t have another at all – I know that’s probably too much pressure on ourselves.  I suppose what keeps us thinking that is Richards age.
I am really enjoying already the special Tilly & Mummy time that we have since Wil & Olivia started Kindy, & in a way I don’t want that taken away.

Emmy

Emmy began to take steps towards having a different experience of birth, & made an appointment to see the Head Obstetrician at her hospital of choice.  But she did not want to go in unprepared…

From: Emmy
Date: Tue, 17  Mar 2009
To: Birthtalk

Well we have been doing some talking about the will we/won’t we have another baby & I have been finding out some info about Nambour  Selangor & the Doctors etc.  I had a really good chat with the  Midwife/Receptionist at Dr Ted Weaver’s Rooms.  I have booked an  appointment with him to basically have a chat, explain my history, ask some  questions & meet him, which is next month.  I was feeling quite  anxious about entering into the ‘unknown’, the new hospital & Doctor.   But now I feel really excited & at the same time relaxed about it  all.  I am so glad that the Midwife spoke about coming & having an  appointment first, which made me really feel at ease.  Also in doing  that, she assured me that whenever (& if) I do fall pregnant, that I am  guaranteed to be able to have him as my Doctor as I will already be classed as  an existing patient.
So, we are on a new journey, no idea where it  will take us at this stage but that’s the excitement in a way.

Another thing I forgot to mention is how great Richard has been through all this & so supportive of checking out the Doctor & Hospital etc before.  He learnt so much from you both & coming to Birthtalk & I thank you again so much for that.  Without his support & understanding would make everything so hard.  I believe that he really understands what I went through & now what I need to do or what we need to do together

It had crossed my mind about talking with Deb to go over the questions etc that I will need to ask.  So I will give her a call.  I am feeling really proud of myself for taking that step & knowing that I am getting informed before I fall pregnant.  That I am deciding the steps this time not just continuing on a path of familiarity.  I have you & Deb to thank for that.  For giving me the knowledge & confidence that I can do it.  I really feel in such a different ‘head space’ this time around.  I know that I can take it all in now without all my history creeping back in & getting me all emotional.  Although I still get emotional, just in a more positive way now!!
Take care – we look forward to seeing you sometime during the course,
Emmy

From: Emmy
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Vbac Course and seeing Ted

Hey Melissa
just tried to call Deb actually but got her answering machine.  Time has flown & I have my appoint with Ted on Mon!  I had planned on sitting down & writing out my list of questions & what is important to me etc before I called Deb just so I would be prepared whilst chatting with her but other things have kept coming up & I had planned to call Deb on a day when the twins are at kindy & Tilly was asleep so that I could actually have the chance to concentrate & chat freely.  But just now I tried to make some notes & have gone blank.  Over the past couple of weeks I had felt really in control & kept thinking about all the things that I want to talk to Ted about & ask etc but now that I actually sit down to write them down, I have no idea!  Feeling a bit un-prepared now & a bit freaked!
Anyway hopefully I can get in contact with Deb before next Mon.  Or I just need to chill out & relax & make a quiet time without any distractions to gather my thoughts & probaly chat with Richard also.  At the moment, TIlly is due to wake up anytime & I know that theres no way I will be able to concentrate once she wakes anyway so maybe thats my reason for panic at the moment!
Sorry – I’m such a stresser sometimes!!
Will let you know how I go,
Emmy

From: Emmy
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009
To: Birthtalk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Vbac rsvp

Just quickly, wanted to definitely book myself into the next vbac course.  Deb told me that you had pencilled us in already, I just wanted to confirm that with you also.  At this stage it will be just me, but will it be ok if Richard came along to some?
I will call Deb to let her know how I went today with my appointment with Ted, but just to let you know, it went really well.  Richard & I both came away happy with all that was said, we liked him & I feel totally supported by him.  He seemed genuinely interested in our situation.
Not once did I feel disappointed with his answers, he made me feel totally at ease in my choices & that it is all about my birth.  I especially liked the way he made me feel normal, & basically that it was totally normal to be asking/wanting a vbac.
Thanks again for helping to steer me in the right direction!
Looking forward to catching up with you soon.
Please forward this on to Deb, I will be calling her also for  a chat.
Emmy

Emmy and Richard attended various sessions of the VBAC Course again in May 2009, and continued their journey of re-education and , for Emmy, healing and understanding about her previous births.   Sixteen months later we received an exciting email :

From: Emmy
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010
To: Birthtalk 

Well…we are having a baby!!  Its only very early days but we are so excited!  I’m feeling great, it all just seems so right!

Anyway was hoping that you could also pass on my news to Deb.  I called her last week (maybe Friday, not sure) & left a msg.  I wanted to talk to her regarding Doulas & possibly booking her.  I understand that she is mega busy & totally understand why she might have not got back to me, but just wanted to let you know our good news & also just to make sure she got my msg, as I’m very keen to secure a spot with her for our birth, even though I’m not due until May next year!!

Deb was very honoured to be asked to be doula for Emmy and Richard’s baby’s birth, and gladly accepted the role.  Over the next nine months Deb supported them as they dealt with any emotional issues that arose, and the practical challenges, including Emmy’s obstetrician retiring just weeks before her due date!  Emmy worked hard to negotiate to get her needs met in this crisis, and secured another obstetrician, with whom they now had to build a relationship, and communicate their specific needs.  Deb came with Emmy and Richard to their antenatal appointments and together they negotiated a plan for an empowering birth.

In early May, Melissa from Birthtalk sent Emmy an email of encouragement and support, telling her : ‘You are an amazing, strong, courageous woman already because of the journey you have been on in healing your previous births, and in mothering your children, and in negotiating getting your needs met in this pregnancy.  ‘   An excerpt from Emmy’s reply is below :

From: Emmy
Date: Sun, 1 May 2011
To: Birthtalk 

So we are nearing the end of this pregnancy, & I’m definitely feeling it!  I’m so uncomfortable most of the time but I swore to myself that I wouldn’t say things like ” I’m over it ” or anything like that.  This will be the last time I have such an amazing thing happening inside my body & I really wanted to enjoy every part of it.  It just gets so hard to continue on with day to day life – especially with 3 little ones already! – & struggle to move & bend!  But also, I’m so excited for whats ahead & can’t wait to meet our little one.  I feel in such a good place, relaxed & ready, just waiting…

Deb had been great.  Makes so much difference to have already known her & formed that bond with someone that will be so involved in something so special with us.  Already she has helped us through what feels like so much especially when we changed Obstetricians.  I really do feel so well supported already from Richard & Deb, that its helped me to have the confidence to believe in my own instincts & know which path to take with different things that have come our way.  I really do feel I have full trust in my body & in birth.

Thanks again for your thoughts & encouraging words, even though I’m feeling strong & confident, it’s always so nice to hear someone say things like that.

All the best, I’m looking forward to sharing our news with you!

And then, in late May, came this beautiful email :

From: Emmy
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011
To: Birthtalk 

Well we did it!  I’m sure Deb had filled you in but wanted to share with you also – both you & Deb have been such a big part of us getting to this point.  I’m still so in awe of what we went through.  I feel so great & could tell anyone & everyone how proud of myself I am!  Amelia is so perfect & so calm & settled & I really do believe that has a lot to do with me feeling relaxed, strong & confident.

Throughout my pregnancy I gained more confidence in myself & relied on the trust I had in my body & in birth (thanks to you & Deb) to stay relaxed & in a good head space in the last couple of months.  Then when I went into labour I felt so trusting & safe & so well supported that I didn’t once feel scared.  It was certainly the hardest thing I’’ve ever had to do & my body was pretty knocked around, & is still recovering now.  I remember getting emotional between contractions because I felt so good, felt so safe & supported, from knowing the kids were well looked-after by Mum & Dad, to how wonderful Richard & Deb were to me.  They were so great, Richard was amazing, he stayed by my side the whole time.  I really believe that having Deb there helped Richard so much, helped him to stay strong & supportive of me & she looked after us both so well – giving us drinks, food & even applying lip balm for me!

Then when Vicki Chan came in was just such a blessing, I really feel like I won the lottery!  After Deb explaining that she knew Vicki & her telling me about her (I have previously read bits & pieces about her also), I instantly had trust in her & what she wanted or suggesting that I try to do.  It all just seemed ‘so meant to be’.

In the days after Amelia’s birth, it all seemed still so fresh in my mind, the pain of pushing was so intense that I just didn’t want to think about it, let alone look at the photos!  But I finally plucked up the courage to look at the photos & WOW – I’m still just so amazed at what we went through!  I feel like I should be at Birthtalk sharing my story, that I now ‘really get it’.

I’m still feeling a bit emotional though, especially feeling that journey that I have been on pretty much since Tilly was born, so 4.5 years, through finding Birthtalk & you & Deb, through all the emotions of healing & educating ourselves to deciding to have another baby.  That was all such a big part of my life for so long, now even though I couldn’t have asked for a better outcome & I feel so proud of myself, part of me is sad to say goodbye to that part of my life.

Thank you again from the bottom of my heart, finding you & Deb has helped my Family more than words could ever say.

The following beautiful photos were taken by Deb as Emmy and Richard met Amelia – a powerful account of an empowered birthing woman and her family.

There is one more email from Emmy we’d like to share, sent to us after she had read the final edit of this article.  It truly demonstrates the impact of the journey Emmy has undertaken, and we are so grateful that she has agreed to share her story with us, so we can share it with you.

From: Emmy
Date: Tue, 5 July, 2011
To: Birthtalk 

Hi again Melissa,

Its so interesting to read what my thoughts were for so long but then to realise how I worked through it all.  For so long I struggled with knowing that I wanted ‘the birth experience’ but perhaps not really wanting another child.  But when we finally decided to try for another baby, it wasn’t at all about the birth.  And now we have Amelia & I couldn’t imagine life without her, & as a bonus, we got the most beautiful & rewarding birth as well!  I even felt at peace late in my pregnancy when Amelia was laying transverse & even though I wanted to try everything I could to encourage her to turn, I felt ok in my head knowing that if it was necessary for me to have a caesarean, that I’d done all that I could.

Even though I know giving birth to Amelia was & probably will be the hardest thing I will ever do, I just want to go & do it all again!  Do you feel that way?  I have listened to Lucie & Lisa talk at the meetings & they have always said the same thing & I always found it hard to understand.  But I find myself constantly looking at the birth pics (we have a beautiful pic of her head out just sitting there patiently waiting & also a little bit of a video of my last contraction & her coming out – its so awesome to watch even though its dark & quite hard to see) & wishing we could go back to that Sunday (Mothers Day) & do it all again, not change a thing but just experience it all again.

I just feel so different this time.  I’m really loving every minute of feeding Amelia, I even don’t mind waking up at night to feed.  I once had an immaculate house, housework always done, washing always folded but now I’m quite content to cuddle Amelia all day.  She’d rather stay in our arms so I try my best to do everything one handed when I can.  We’ve all fallen in love with her.

I was actually thinking about it all & what I would say if I was asked about my story & feelings etc.  And thinking back, I never actually knew what it was that I was so sad about & what my ‘problem’ was.  I felt ok after the twins birth, mainly because I didn’t know any different but something inside me kept me thinking about a natural birth.  I didn’t know why, because at that time I had no idea about the wonderful rewards that birth & the hormones could give.  Then after Tilly’s birth, I still didn’t feel right but still didn’t know why.  Until I met you guys & over time learnt about what birth could be.  And now it is so surprising how many people I chat to about my feelings & experiences, that they themselves start to mention some things about how they would have liked to birth naturally etc.  I wonder how many people feel exactly how I did, that something just doesn’t feel right.  And perhaps those people will never have answers or never know any different.  I just feel so blessed that I did get to experience it, I guess I may have always felt a bit of sadness if I didn’t birth Amelia naturally but I am so thrilled to have had the most awesome & empowering experience that has kept me floating along enjoying every moment.  Even though before Amelia’s birth I knew how birth could be, to be able to speak now from experience feels so great & knowing that I will be able to share that with my kids is so special.

Although sharing my story on the blog feels really personal, it doesn’t really worry me.  I’m not ashamed of what I went through –  I am so proud of being able to be honest with myself & take on the hard journey to healing & educating.  I always had so many questions from people regarding my choice of hospital & comments about not making it there in time.  Even my GP was quite critical at first about my choices.  But I knew & trusted in myself enough to not let all that concern me.  At one of the vbac meetings, Deb & Lucy gave out those Pregnancy & Birth Oracle Cards (which I absolutely loved) & the very last one I drew out in the week leading up to Amelia’s birth was – YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH Well done! You have been honouring your intuition! – and still now I can’t bring myself to put that card away!  I love reading it & remembering that ‘place’ I was in back before her birth & still feel like now reading it keeps me honouring my intuition in knowing what’s right in my parenting & decision making.

I feel exactly as you have said – that I don’t want to lose those feelings & the awe of it all. Even though at the time it was such hard work & all I wanted was for it to be over, I can now think back & smile!

More than happy to come along to a Healing From Birth meeting anytime you’d like me to.  With you wanting to use my story, it makes me feel quite important, like my story & journey really mattered.  I love that I could be helping others, just as so many have helped me.

Emmy

©Birthtalk & Emmy Lee 2011

As a footnote, we also want to make it clear that Emmy’s birth wasn’t just ‘amazing’ because it was a VBA2C.  It was different to her other experiences even before she conceived – this time she had support and information to become empowered, from the pregnancy through to the day of the birth, and postnatally too.  We have Birthtalk mums who are planning a VBAC and for a variety of reasons, they end up with a repeat caesarean.  The difference in the majority of cases, to their previous caesarean, is that THIS time they feel strong, empowered, involved in the decision-making.  And yes, they will likely feel sad and disappointed and grieve that a vaginal birth was not possible…but they are NOT traumatised, and can make sense of what happened to them with ease, and feel supported as they grieve, and move back into parenting their beautiful babies. 

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We also recently received another email in response to the article in Pathways…from Laura Stavoe herself.  She was copying us on an email she had written to the editors of Pathways magazine in response to our article, and wrote to us that she thought that our organisation ‘sounds wonderful, and I truly appreciate all the work you do.’  She thought we’d be interested to know the original context of her quote, which of course we were!  We had tried to find this information initially, but because we were searching under Ms Stavoe’s married name, we had no luck. In the end we had decided that, although we really wanted the context, as we guessed it would give more weight to what we were saying, we could still write the article anyway, as it was really about how it can be interpreted that we were concerned with.

As it turns out, the quote is excerpted from an article that is no longer available online, so we were happy and grateful to receive Ms Stavoe’s email.  We have reproduced it in full, below :

Dear editors:

My step-daughter gave me your magazine when she realized that you ran an article based on a quote that I wrote many years ago, “There’s a secret in our culture, and it’s not that birth is painful. It’s that women are strong.” I’ve been as amazed as anyone at the way those words have found a life of their own, and I admit at times I’ve been uncomfortable with the assumptions people make based on those words. The authors of your article were careful to mention that the words were taken out of context. I wanted to add that context here.

I wrote those words as part of a first-person essay for American Baby magazine in 1998. The essay was about the rather old-fashioned idea (popular in my mother’s generation) that we should not talk about birth stories because it would scare women about the pain. The thesis of the essays was that women have much to be gained by sharing our birth stories. The “secret” was not meant to suggest that anything at all about natural childbirth, but rather, that in sharing our stories we would learn what so many women have been able to bear over the centuries in its myriad of forms.

Your article gave me the opportunity to see how some interpreted that quote, and I appreciate that since to me it was always connected to the “storytelling” idea. I stand by the idea that women are stronger than we have been led to know over the years, but I certainly hope that people don’t assign such a narrow application of what is meant by “strength.”  My own situation was a complicated one. I was in preterm labor, on bedrest and on medication for the last 77 days of my twin pregnancy.  My sons were born in an operating theater.  I had them vaginally and without an epidural, but only because they came so fast and Dylan happened to turn head down at the last second.

I would’ve loved to have had a more natural pregnancy and birth, but it was not our path.

Still, it is my best story. It is my best story because those boys are now fifteen years old. Gabe ran a sub 2 minute 800 as a freshman and placed in state. Dylan is going to play violin with his high school orchestra at Carnegie Hall in April.  And while part of me mentioning these things is just a typical mother’s pride, there is also always the subtext: they almost weren’t here. The combination of western medicine and my body and grace meant that these two beings had a chance.  (To read Ms Stavoe’s intense journey to birth with her twins, see Diary of a Difficult Pregnancy)

Also it is my best story because I have never been the same since their birth, not because my birth was so perfect, but because motherhood in its entirety is a transformative experience. At least that is how it has been for me.  

I don’t know that this generation of women need the quote in the context I wrote it. I think women are far more open about their stories than previous generations.  How wonderful is that! I appreciate the opportunity to see these words in a different light, and I hope that women keep talking about things so that we all gain strength from each other.    

Laura Stavoe

We would like to thank Ms Stavoe for contacting us, and clarifying the original context of her oft-used quote for a new generation of birthing women.   Ms Stavoe is absolutely right to stand by the idea that women are stronger than we have been led to believe, and that’s one of the reasons we run Birthtalk.org.  We agree that things are changing, and women do share more of their stories, perhaps partly due to the legacy of Ms Stavoe and her peers.    Our ongoing focus at Birthtalk.org  is to offer women opportunities to discover their strength by sharing positive, empowering stories, and busting the birth myths that have kept many of us trapped in fear.

©Birthtalk.org 2011

Laura Stavoe (Image © L. Stavoe)

Once again, a woman commenting on this blog has expressed views that could be offensive & insensitive to those recovering from the impact of birth.  We again considered ignoring the comment, but as we see so many similar viewpoints on various forums, chatlists, websites and blogs that go unchecked and unchallenged, we have chosen to address the myths, misconceptions and hurtful assumptions that this woman has raised.

How this all started

Some readers commented on our blog that they feel robbed and ‘less of a woman’ as a result of their caesarean births.  One woman says, “I can no longer talk to my parents about the births of my two daughters as I get the same thing…healthy mother, healthy baby. I am not healthy. I have not entirely healed. My surgical birth openings may be less sensitive but my heart and mind still feel the pain. I still feel robbed of the natural birth experience and sometimes feel “less of a woman”. I feel my girls were also robbed of the natural rite of passage and were “taken” instead!!

Another woman shared those sentiments, writing, “The not wanting to talk about certain things, and the feeling that my son was “taken.” I had a cesarean, also. I … ALSO get the “Well you should be glad they did a cesarean because the baby was in distress!” Yeah, he was in distress, from the pitocin contractions, and I never should have let anyone induce me. ..So, needless to say, I don’t talk much about the birth to my MIL or her friends or anything like that, and I try not to talk about other things. Their remarks remind me that I wasn’t happy with labor/delivery, and it makes my blood boil.”

A disagreement of feelings

These comments then received the following response by another woman  :

Hi ladies, as a mother who had a emergency cesarean, i would just like to express my disagreement of feelings. I don’t understand how you could feel “less of a woman” or “robbed” of the experience of vaginal birth? i was dreading it. I was induced, failed to progress past 8cm, and had emergency C section and i feel that cesarean was the best outcome possible for me and baby!! A positive is my vagina is still intact lol. I think that maybe you view your experience too negatively.. i mean i didn’t have the worst birth ever (eg. broken tail bone that one of my friends experienced and a billion vaginal stiches) but it wasn’t exactly a walk in the park. 18.5hrs of labour (thank u science for epidural, couldn’t have gone the whole way otherwise) But i feel that either way it wouldn’t have been fun! It all involves pain which ever way they exit. If i was back in the ‘old days’ one or both of us would have died!! They think that my pelvic shape may have something to do with it and doc said next time i will probably have to have cesarean again. I did feel that the whole thing was traumatic for me, like now and then i have flashbacks, but all of the pain and suffering gets almost forgotten with that one prescious moment of the doctor holding my baby girl up over the curtain and my partner and i bursting into tears of happiness …that is when i had known i had done it. She was out and alive and so was I, and I felt a real sense of accomplishment. We had made a beautiful baby and she was healthy. Now if you ladies cant tell me that you felt that feeling, of success seeing your baby out, alive and well, i believe that you are selfish. Selfish because you aren’t really caring about what is important- that babies well being! Would having that baby come out dead from your vagina because that is what is “supposed to happen” make you feel better? NO!! And having a traumatic birth only makes you a stronger person, learn from it.. it makes other things in life seem less painful. If people judge you because of a cesarean then that is ridiculous. No one has ever made me feel any less than what i am..a wonderful mother. People will always throw advice at you, but take it with a pinch of salt, they always think their way is best. But only you know what is best for your baby.. Mentally, having my baby was the scariest and most challenging thing i’ve ever done. I proudly tell my birth story to my friends and other people, because its MY story and its what happened to me. I am not ashamed, i am no less of a woman than my mother who had me vaginally. I am not weaker because i had to have a cesarean. I just thank god for what i have… An beautiful baby girl, and my own healthy and functioning body.

Jacinta

Birthtalk.org’s reply

Below is Birthtalk.org’s reply to Jacinta.  We have chosen to address her statements in segments, for ease of reading…

Jacinta – it is due to common misunderstandings such as yours that we began this blog.  We were tempted to delete your comment, as you have said some things that could be very hurtful, and come across as unkind, to many women.  However, because so many traumatised women deal with comments like this every day, and because so many people share your sentiments, we have decided to publish your comment, and include our own reply.  We are tackling your comment section by section, beginning with your opening statement.

…as a mother who had a emergency cesarean, i would just like to express my disagreement of feelings. I don’t understand how you could feel “less of a woman” or “robbed” of the experience of vaginal birth?

Firstly, it is entirely appropriate that you would have a ‘disagreement of feelings’ with the women who have commented previously. There is no ‘set’ response to birth and  womens’ experiences of that journey can be vastly different.  It also follows, then, that you can have a different set of feelings post-birth…every experience of birth is different, every caesarean is different, every vaginal birth is different.  The reason you don’t understand how someone could feel less of a woman or robbed is because fortunately you didn’t feel that way yourself…NOT because it is unreasonable to feel that way (which is what you have assumed).

i was dreading it. I was induced, failed to progress past 8cm, and had emergency C section and i feel that cesarean was the best outcome possible for me and baby!! A positive is my vagina is still intact lol.

A caesarean possibly was the best possible outcome for you and your baby. No-one would argue with you on that, as we don’t know the exact circumstances around your birth. It sounds that, whilst obviously challenging, a caesarean birth was also less scary for you, which also would have influenced how you feel about your experience. Going into birth with a feeling of dread can also mean that decisions are made out of fear, rather than knowledge. Your flippant comment regarding having an intact vagina demonstrates to us that your understanding of birth was sorely lacking. The birth process is not designed to cause vaginal trauma and mostly does not need to be experienced in this way. So whilst it’s great that your vagina is still intact, so are ours…and we’ve had vaginal births (Melissa has had a caesarean followed by a VBAC).  Our three vaginally-birthed babies have ranged from 9lb to 10lb, (that is, around 4kg to 4.5kg).  We do not offer this information as a boast of our ‘birthing prowess’, as we know that our ability to birth these babies without vaginal trauma was largely a result of having access to excellent antenatal information, plus wonderful emotional and physical support during the birth, the positions we were able to use for birthing, and having caregivers who did not pressure us to push.   We are telling you of our own experiences merely to demonstrate that vaginal birth does NOT have to equal vaginal damage.  To be honest – there are many women who would not see an intact vagina as an overriding positive, if the alternative is having a scar on their belly & uterus that gives them additional risks for future pregnancies.

I think that maybe you view your experience too negatively.. i mean i didn’t have the worst birth ever (eg. broken tail bone that one of my friends experienced and a billion vaginal stiches) but it wasn’t exactly a walk in the park. 18.5hrs of labour (thank u science for epidural, couldn’t have gone the whole way otherwise) But i feel that either way it wouldn’t have been fun! It all involves pain which ever way they exit. If i was back in the ‘old days’ one or both of us would have died!! They think that my pelvic shape may have something to do with it and doc said next time i will probably have to have cesarean again. I did feel that the whole thing was traumatic for me, like now and then i have flashbacks, but all of the pain and suffering gets almost forgotten with that one prescious moment of the doctor holding my baby girl up over the curtain and my partner and i bursting into tears of happiness …that is when i had known i had done it.

This is not about who’s had the ‘worst birth ever’.  It’s about women having experienced feelings during labour & birth that have resulted in feelings of trauma & distress afterwards…whether this is the result of how they were cared for, or the circumstances surrounding their birth.  It’s not about pain.  We have had women come to Birthtalk who have painless labours, and still suffer postnatally because of how they were cared for.  I can imagine that your own experience was ‘no walk in the park’, as you say, with 18.5 hrs of labour – that’s a pretty intense experience…and often more so with an induction.  And without knowing more about your labour it is impossible to say whether the Doctor is giving you accurate, evidence-based information in telling you that you will need a repeat caesarean.  We would recommend getting a second opinion on that one, as there are so many more factors at play than merely pelvic shape.

What are some of these factors?  Firstly, being induced means that you already were not experiencing a ‘normal’ birth, as your body then goes into labour before it may be ready. If your body is not ready, then this raises question marks over a number of things, starting with your baby’s readiness & correct positioning.  If your body was not ready, then you likely lack  the presence of hormones that reduce the pain in a labour which starts on its own, so it will hurt more.  And there would be question marks surrounding the readiness of your cervix to dilate.  Even experiencing feelings of dread about the impending birth, and having feelings during the birth that lead you to describe your birth to us as ‘traumatic’, can be enough to disrupt the progress of labour.  You describe your birth as consisting of ‘pain and suffering’, which often indicates an environment not supportive of birthing (whether it’s the physical environment or the emotional environment), and this can affect the ability of your body’s hormones to do their job to progress your labour, and also reduce the pain.  Then if you add in the fact that you had an epidural, which alone is associated with increasing your chance of caesarean, then perhaps you can see that there are many variables (separate to pelvic shape) that may have led to ‘failure to progress’.

In ‘the old days’ one or both of you may have died…or you may not have.  It depends on so much more than just lying on a bed and labouring and ‘seeing what happens’.  As you can see from what we have said above, if you were labouring in a different environment, with different support, and different information, the outcome may have been different.  (we should also add that we are not making a judgement of you for having an induction or an epidural…it’s not about whether you have them or not…it’s about having good information about how these interventions can affect the progress of your labour, and taking steps to support your body in such situations, which is only possible with a different set of information)

We hear what you are saying, that the whole thing was traumatic for you, for which we are really sorry.  We could understand this, from what you have told us about your experience, especially if you are having flashbacks, which indicates that this birth has affected you profoundly.

You say that either way, your birth ‘wouldn’t have been fun’.  We know many, many women who find their births to be enjoyable experiences, and who would have more babies…just to experience birth again.  So yes, maybe ‘fun’ is not the right word…but women having empowering (even if painful) births describe them as ‘exhilarating’, ‘ecstatic’, ‘mind-blowing’, ‘awesome’ experiences, that are infused with positive emotions (ie no dread, no suffering, no trauma)…and these are NOT all natural births that we are talking about.  We are just throwing this ‘out there’ to challenge your assumption that birth will be horrible & something you just have to go through, regardless of how the baby is born.   Again – we do not judge the fact that you experienced dread, suffering and trauma…we completely understand why you did, based on what you have told us, plus reading a bit between the lines…we are just saying that with different education about birth and perhaps differences in your care, it does not HAVE to be that way, and is not ALWAYS that way.

She was out and alive and so was I, and I felt a real sense of accomplishment. We had made a beautiful baby and she was healthy.  Now if you ladies cant tell me that you felt that feeling, of success seeing your baby out, alive and well, i believe that you are selfish. Selfish because you aren’t really caring about what is important- that babies well being!

And how do you know that the women who have commented above did not burst into tears of happiness when their baby was held over the curtain?  I certainly did exactly that, even though my birth was very traumatic and I ended up with a caesarean after 30 hours.  You can be happy about your baby’s arrival, and devastated with your experience of the arrival, all at the same time.  That’s what can make it all the more confusing for a woman in that position.

And of course you should feel a sense of accomplishment for making a beautiful, healthy baby.  But just because you feel it, doesn’t mean that other women will.  How you experienced your caesarean will likely be different from how another experienced hers. How can you tell another woman that she should feel like you, when you did not go through the same thing that she did?  Caesareans can be beautiful, positive events…or they can be horrific, devastating events…or anything in between.  And the things that make them one or the other are not things that you can find out just by hearing that a woman ‘had a caesarean’.  That does not tell you how she was treated, how she felt, what went on during the surgery, whether the health carers treated her appropriately.  It is THESE THINGS that a woman is responding to as well, NOT just ‘having a caesarean’.

The impact of being mistreated can easily overshadow the feeling of accomplishment for making a beautiful baby, especially if no-one acknowledges the significance of this for the woman.
 
If a woman ‘can’t feel that feeling of success seeing her baby out, alive and well’, then to call her selfish is extremely revealing.  It clearly demonstrates a lack of understanding about birth, and especially about traumatic birth.  What is important goes WAY beyond the baby’s well-being.  Of course all women with healthy babies are grateful for that-  it’s a bit of a no-brainer really.  But if they have been through a traumatic birth, they may be swamped with overwhelming emotions that need validating and processing.  The woman’s wellbeing is every bit as important, as it affects her ability to mother.

Would having that baby come out dead from your vagina because that is what is “supposed to happen” make you feel better? NO!!

Bringing up the topic of dead babies, Jacinta, is rather unnecessary, damaging, and irrelevant.  We have women come to Birthtalk who HAVE had babies die.  They are often suffering from two levels of trauma : one from losing their child, and another from how they experienced the actual birth.  Chances are, they would have been at Birthtalk even if their babies had survived, to deal with the trauma of the birth…but because the grief and shock of their baby dying takes precedence, they often only deal with birth trauma a long way down the track. Does that make sense?  Even women whose babies die can experience the same trauma as women whose babies survive.  Of course those women who lose their babies have a whole new terrible tragic level to deal with, but the women in this situation who have come to Birthtalk have expressed their relief to be able to separate the two different types of trauma., and finally process the birth trauma.

And having a traumatic birth only makes you a stronger person, learn from it.. it makes other things in life seem less painful

You say that ‘having a traumatic birth only makes you a stronger person’, but you are wrong. Having a traumatic birth does not make you a stronger person if you receive no support, no validation, no means to understand your experience.  It is the healing process that reveals a woman’s strength, and for many women this process needs to be helped along by wonderful support and understanding.  Your own comments have not provided any support and understanding, and actually serve to perpetuate the myths in our culture surrounding traumatic birth.

If people judge you because of a cesarean then that is ridiculous. No one has ever made me feel any less than what i am..a wonderful mother. People will always throw advice at you, but take it with a pinch of salt, they always think their way is best. But only you know what is best for your baby..

You are correct that this is a ‘ridiculous’ judgment but just because no-one made you feel less than a wonderful mother, does not mean other women receive the same treatment or have your ability to process it. Everyone is in a different family situation, with different friends, different partners, different mothers and mothers-in-law.  It’s great that you have been able to feel a wonderful mother.  However  your comments could easily make another woman feel judged and less-than, simply because of the lack of empathy and awareness you show.  There is also a difference between ‘people throwing advice at you’ ( as you have described it) and being told that you are selfish for wanting to emotionally recover from your birth (which is what many women continually hear from those around them…including you).

Mentally, having my baby was the scariest and most challenging thing i’ve ever done. I proudly tell my birth story to my friends and other people, because its MY story and its what happened to me. I am not ashamed, i am no less of a woman than my mother who had me vaginally. I am not weaker because i had to have a cesarean. I just thank god for what i have… An beautiful baby girl, and my own healthy and functioning body

Of course you are not less of a woman because you had a caesarean.  Of course you are not weaker.  But maybe this is because the unique set of circumstances in your own unique situation enabled you to maintain a sense of it being your story rather than experiencing it as ‘others doing things to you’. (which might explain why you don’t feel ‘robbed’).  Women who feel impacted by their birth often report feeling that it wasn’t ‘their’ birth…usually because they were treated in a way that implied this.

Perhaps, too,  you have not been inundated by others  around you implying that you ARE less of a woman.   Other women hear constantly that they are not responding appropriately to their birth…when the appropriate response is actually dependent on each woman’s experience of it. The only one who knows how a woman feels about her birth is the woman herself, because she was the one who experienced it. Without talking to her, how could we possibly know?

And we are so glad you have a healthy, functioning body.  Other women have not been so lucky in their recovery from caesarean.  You do not know the recovery details of the other women who have commented here, or of the other women who have had caesareans…or vaginal births for that matter.  It would be incorrect to assume that everyone has been as lucky as you.

Women who feel robbed after a traumatic birth are experiencing reasonable, understandable emotions in response to particular situations that arose during their births. They may feel robbed physiologically (that is, they did not get the hormones and physical experiences that women are supposed to get from birth), or emotionally (that is, they did not get the emotional support and feelings of safety that are required for a birth to feel positive). And even those who have had positive births may still need to process the circumstances surrounding their birth.

We are glad you are proud of your birth story.  You rightfully have nothing to be ashamed about, and probably much to be proud of.  But what you have done with your comment is to shame other women who feel differently.  This is unacceptable, unkind, and unhelpful.  As we said – we have published your comment to demonstrate the kind of misinformation that women who feel bad about their births come up against in our society and to perhaps allow others, like yourself, to reflect on this.  And also, most importantly, to give women who are struggling after a traumatic birth a clear message… that you – and others who share your sentiments – are wrong.

©Birthtalk 2010

The difficult days following a traumatic birth, where a woman needs support and validation, not shaming and judgment. Photo©Birthtalk

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Below, a woman named Lindsey is commenting about our inaugural post titled “The Truth About Traumatic Birth Is…”.  This article discussed the presence of lies, myths and misperceptions about traumatic birth, that each serve to maintain the deception that women  must just ‘get over it’ and ‘be grateful’.

Lindsey’s comment : “This is so true, it reminds me of when people tell a rape victim that they are “lucky” to be alive. it is completely ignorant because emotional well being is just as important as physical! thank you for spreading the message.”

We then received a reply to Lindsey’s comment from a woman named Jacinta.

Jacinta replied to Lindsey’s comment, saying : It is NOTHING like a rape victim being told they are lucky to be alive! Your baby did nothing wrong.. when someone is raped it is a crime, it involves malice and perverted behaviour. Your baby needed to get out, and you needed it out. That doesn’t even compare!! I am saddened by the fact that some women actually feel this way. As i have never, and never will. i DIDNT put my hand up for a cesarean, but it definitely isn’t the worst thing that could of happened to me or baby.

We felt it important to address the misunderstandings, and clear up the issues, so we have replied to Jacinta’s comment below.  We have not delved into the wider issues surrounding birth as a violation, but rather introduce the topic here to provide the opportunity for those who are new to the concept a chance to develop an initial understanding, which will hopefully lead to greater empathy for all women after birth.

Birthtalk’s reply : Jacinta – unfortunately, Lindsey is right.   Lindsey is saying nothing about the baby, but about the treatment some women receive whilst birthing their babies, whether caesarean birth or not. Telling a rape victim she is lucky to be alive can be invalidating of the horror she has been through, and raises feelings of guilt for feeling bad when ‘it could have been worse’.  This is very similar to telling a woman after a traumatic birth that she should be grateful that her baby is ok.  It is invalidating of the experience she has been through, and raises feelings of guilt in the mother for feeling bad when ‘it could have been worse’.  If a woman expresses distress as a response to either of these situations it would be entirely reasonable, and does not need to be played down or sweetened by telling her she should be grateful to be so ‘lucky’.

Sometimes, how a woman feels and what happens to her in childbirth is similar to how  women feel and what happens in a  sexual rape.  Many refer to this as birth rape, and this issue is not limited to women having caesareans.

How does birth rape compare to sexual rape?  For most sexual rape victims the emotional injuries often are more significant and longer lasting than the physical. (This is certainly not downplaying those women who sustain horrific physical trauma and long term damage in these situations. ) However, what all sexual rape victims share is being in a situation of being ultimately powerless, incredibly vulnerable, fearful and having someone cross decent boundaries with them. They have all had someone invading them without any respect or decency or even basic acknowledgment of their rights over their own body.

This is incredibly damaging and obviously a crime, whether the perpetrator did so with malice or not. (Yes, usually there is malice and negative intent, but let’s, for argument’s sake, take the example of a mentally unstable perpetrator, with grandiose ideas of how this will somehow be of benefit to her in the long run ‘if only she would be accepting of it’. Despite the lack of malice or ill intent, this still would not change the fact that she has been assaulted, emotionally and perhaps physically injured  and that this was a very real crime of sexual rape.)

Now lets look at birth assault/rape. A vulnerable woman, who is powerless to leave the situation, is at times held down against her will, has strangers looking & touching at private parts of her body, perhaps without appropriate measures being taken to acknowledge her ownership of her body or to preserve her comfort levels. Perhaps she has fingers or instruments inserted without her consent, and sometimes against her consent, invading and crossing decent boundaries.  She is fearful of what is happening to her  and perhaps for the wellbeing of her baby, and receives no reassurance that either she or her child are ok. That is a violation, no matter how you look at it.  Even IF this treatment is given with no malice and the intent of  attempting to assist her with birthing her child, there is NEVER a reason to forgo common decencies that will enable her to maintain a role in the birth, some autonomy over her body, to be involved in the decision-making, to be informed about what they want to do BEFORE they do it.  Abandoning a woman’s right to feelings of emotional safety is never ok.  Even in an emergency, there is usually the possibility of communicating effectively to reduce the chance of a woman feeling violated in an extremely vulnerable situation.

You are right – it is incredibly sad that some women feel that way.  But they feel that way with reason.  You appear to never have felt that way during your birth experience, because you were likely not treated that way.  You are right – a caesarean is in no way the worst thing that could happen to you or your baby.  It sounds like you would not have chosen a caesarean if you’d had the option, but that you were well-treated throughout the experience.  Which is fantastic. There is no reason all women should not be able to be treated and feel the same.

Yes, you had a caesarean.  But when another woman has a caesarean, and is so maltreated that she experiences the horror of having things done to her against her will or in a way so that she feels violated & cannot remove herself from the situation, you cannot say that your experiences were the same and you just coped better.  (and we should add that Lindsey, to whose comment you have replied, made no mention of her birth being a caesarean…that is an assumption you have made. Birth trauma, and indeed birth rape,  is just as possible in a vaginal birth).  As Lindsey says in her comment, ‘Emotional wellbeing is just as important’.  And has a lasting impact long after the birth. We hope this response helps you to better understand why women make these comparisons.

©Debby Gould, Melissa Bruijn, Birthtalk.org 2010

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Our article below focuses on one of these quotes, in an effort to explain our concerns, and place the quotes within a context that enables women to better understand their birth experiences, without feeling blamed or like a failure.

There is a secret in our culture

There is a well-known quote about birth that receives a lot of airplay within the birthing community, and is used a great deal on natural birth blogs, websites and in chat forum signatures .  The quote, by Laura Stavoe Harm, reads : “There is a secret in our culture and it is not that birth is painful but that women are strong”.

The intent of this quote might appear as an acknowledgement of women’s power and determination, and a direct counterattack on our culture’s approach to birth.  It could be seen as refuting the notion that ‘birth is painful and something to be feared’.  But this quote actually has the potential to continue the myths that abound about birth, and especially traumatic birth.

Discomfort with the message

At a Baby Expo we worked at a few years ago, we shared a stall with some wonderful local birthing groups.  Our own posters on the wall behind us asked, “Scared of Birth?”, and “Had a Bad Birth?”, and alongside, one of the groups had placed a laminated version of Laura Stavoe Harm’s quote.  We spent the day offering information and support to many women struggling with the aftermath of their births, some shedding quiet tears right there in the Convention Centre.  We shared that is was ok to ‘not feel grateful’ and to grieve their experience.  And we gradually became more and more uncomfortable with that birth quote on the wall behind us.  Eventually, we explained to the convenor of the stall, who had placed the quote there, our concerns with the sign.  She listened carefully, then stood up and took it straight down, saying she understood, and she’d never thought about it like that before.  And we’d like to share with you why we are uncomfortable about this quote’s popularity, and the possible misinterpretations of its meaning…and what this can mean for a woman who has experienced a disappointing, difficult or traumatic birth.

Self-blame after a traumatic birth

If I had read a quote like that in the months after my own traumatic birth, it would have added to the emotional pain & confusion I was already in.  I had laboured for 30 hours, 22 of those without pain relief, and then succumbed to a caesarean that there is a good chance that I did not need.  It was a long, arduous journey to meeting my son, and left me emotionally shattered, physically fragile, and bereft of the ‘good stuff’ we anticipate that goes along with the arrival of our first child.

I was vulnerable afterwards to all the messages that abound about ‘You should be grateful’, and meanwhile, I felt I’d let my baby down, and failed miserably, by ending up with a caesarean.  I doubted my ability to birth, and felt less of a woman because of this.

But saying to me after a birth like that, that the secret is not that birth is painful, but that women are strong would have been like a knife twisting in my chest. It says immediately to me that ‘you should have been stronger’.  And maybe also “If you were strong, your birth wouldn’t be bothering you now”.

Implications and assumptions

There is a hidden implication in that quote.  It says there is a secret…and implies that somehow knowing that secret would change things.  It implies that if only women were told this secret, then things would be different.   To me, the natural assumption would be as follows : “There is a secret in our culture…and if you knew this, it would have meant that you would have had a vaginal birth, and not had a traumatic birth or a caesarean.”    And to me, there is the implication then, that if I’d just been strong, then I wouldn’t be feeling so wretched now.

I was already ‘putting myself through the wringer’, asking, “Why couldn’t I handle the pain?  Why couldn’t I have a natural birth?  Why was my whole world falling apart due to the trauma of the birth?”  And, basically, this quote was telling me that I’d failed just because I wasn’t strong enough.

Excuse me?  I laboured – drug-free – for 22 hours, without appropriate support, and with a posterior baby. I lived through the agonising experience of having to remain completely still, whilst having powerful contractions, to get a needle stuck into my spine.  I lay quietly and wrestled with growing fears as I was cut open – while I was awake -  in order to meet my child.  And I wasn’t strong?

Why this quote is damaging

The reason this quote is so damaging for a traumatised woman, is that it is not true.  The secret is not that women are strong.  The truth is, in our culture, strength is simply not always enough to carry a woman through the birthing journey.

I was incredibly strong in my birth…but it was not enough to ward off the lack of good support & the poor care I received from the midwife in attendance.  I knew birth was painful – no-one had to tell me that.  But what no-one did tell me, was that birth hurts more when we are frightened and out-of-control and feel unsafe.  And I certainly felt all of those!

The truth about strength

The truth is – strength cannot combat inadequate antenatal education, and a maternal health system that requires birth to present in a uniform fashion, that is, “if your birth isn’t ‘textbook’, then we have to make it fit the system”.

The truth is – the key to a birthing woman’s strength, (and the key to her labour progressing well), lies in her ability to be vulnerable, and open, and to surrender wholly to the experience that is overwhelming her entire body and mind.  That’s when the hormones that progress labour do their work best.  But she can’t risk being vulnerable and surrendering if she feels powerless or scared, or intimidated or even violated.

So really, it has nothing to do with just having strength, but plenty to do with creating a situation where a woman is able to unleash her strength.  And this requires excellent and empowering antenatal education, and informed support people who understand why and how to advocate for the woman, and to protect her space.

The real secret

So what is the secret then, if it is not that women are strong?

The secret is that women cannot feel their strength unless they feel safe and supported and nurtured, and trusting of their body’s ability.

So how do they get these things?  Firstly, it is hard for women to feel safe and supported and nurtured unless their support people understand the importance of this for labour progression and emotional health, so great communication and education is vital.  And how do women gain trust in their body?  Not just by blindly ‘trusting’, but by being given appropriate evidence-based information and the sharing of knowledge that enables birth to earn their trust.

Because they don’t know that, women (including myself) blame themselves when their bodies do what they have been designed to do and shut down when they feel unsafe.   Women blame themselves when they begin to ‘friend-make’ with the very carers who are undermining them, because they have no choice…they need them for their survival.   (this ‘friend-making’ is an adrenalin hormonal response too, designed to ensure survival)

How we go into birth

Many natural birth advocates talk of the amazing hormones of childbirth.  They are right – they are amazing. But they are not available if the woman is scared out of her brain, or left alone in a room to labour when she is needing support, or given antenatal education that does not enable her to trust her body’s ability, or talked down to & patted on the head with a ‘don’t worry your pretty head’ attitude, or not had her questions answered.  Yet this is how many, many women go into birth.

And these women who are birthing in this way have not failed. Really, they have been failed…by our system, our antenatal education, and even our culture in its attitudes to birth.   If she is well-supported by her carers and her knowledge, a woman does have access to those amazing hormones.  I know – I have experienced them with my second birth, and they were amazing.  But this time, I felt safe, supported, respected, acknowledged, and had a new understanding of birth.

Fierceness or vulnerability?

Laura Stavoe Harm’s quote could be interpreted as suggesting that women who ‘give in’ to the pain of childbirth are weak (as opposed to strong).   Another way I have seen it written is that women need to be ‘fierce’.  But the issue here is really one of vulnerability.

In my first birth, I was vulnerable.  But there is no way I was weak. The system weakened me by taking away my power, by abandoning my birthing body & my birthing mind, by withdrawing their Birth Centre philosophy when I went in the ‘un-textbook’ basket.  Did I fail because I was not fierce enough?  Of course not…I had no information that taught me I had anything to be fierce about…and certainly no possibility (due to lack of support) to perhaps find this intuitively. I had no inkling that I would be offered anything in that birth that was not in my best interest.  My Birth Centre midwife did not come with me to the epidural and then caesarean.  No Birth Centre midwife visited me afterwards, in the 7 days I was in hospital.   I felt a failure and a reject.  Weakened…but not by my own doing.

I was vulnerable in my second birth too.  But this time, my fierceness was enabled and applauded and honoured  by my midwife and my well-informed support people .   I had access to different information, and, through copious research and reading (and even witnessing my niece enter the world)… birth had gained my trust.  And I was enabled to open up to the enormity of the experience, and had a beautiful VBAC.

Releasing the myths

I remember being at a BBQ when my son was a couple of years old, and I was still emotionally very fragile from the birth.  An acquaintance was talking about her smooth-sailing Birth Centre birth.  She said she guessed her birth went so well because she was ‘so determined’.  This completely crushed me.  Did I ‘fail’ in my birth because I was not determined enough?  Because I was not strong enough?   I was lucky – Deb saw my face, and pulled me aside to explain the things this woman had access to that I had not.  Then I could see that it was not that she was more determined, just that she had (amongst other things) better care, a more straightforward labour, and a one-on-one relationship with a midwife that she knew.  But what about all those women who don’t have a ‘Deb’ to release them from these misperceptions about birth?

We’ve met incredibly strong women who have faced insurmountable odds in a traumatic birthing situation. It is not dictated by whether they are birthing in hospital or at home.  It has nothing to do with their strength.  It has to do with being in a situation to have that strength honoured and enabled to unfurl because the woman is safe, and knows it.  This is only possible when a woman has exceptional antenatal education, and exceptional communication between herself and her carer, and has exceptional support people who are informed as to the importance of the woman feeling safe and unobserved, and who themselves trust birth.  And unless women know this, they will continue to blame themselves, and remain ‘stuck’ in their healing.

It depends on where you are

Maybe it is all a matter of ‘where you are’ in your understanding of birth, as to how you interpret this, and other, quotes.  If I had read Laura Stavoe Harm’s quote midway through my second pregnancy, my response would likely have been…  “Yes!”.  But by then I had a wealth of new information about birth, and was beginning to see just was required for a birthing woman to feel safe.

I also knew by then, without a doubt, that the things that had ‘gone wrong’ in my first birth were not because I wasn’t strong enough. And yes, I needed to hear that women were strong as I prepared for this next birth, but, without the insights I now had, I may have misinterpreted it to mean that ‘strength’ was what I needed…rather than an environment where my strength could be best supported and enabled to blossom.

Concerns over misinterpretation

Shortly prior to the completion of this article, we discovered another birth quote posted to a popular Facebook page that has over 6000 members.  The quote, by Virginia Di Orio, reads :  “Just as a woman’s heart knows how and when to pump, her lungs to inhale, and her hand to pull back from fire, so she knows when and how to give birth.”   This quote has the same potential to be misinterpreted, especially by a woman who feels she failed in birth.

Whilst we agree with this quote, we’d like to add : “A woman (in our culture) knows when and how to give birth…if she receives appropriate antenatal education for herself (& her support people) that explains & honours her body’s capabilities, & has exceptional support and care from a known caregiver, & has the chance to develop a trust in birth and her body based on facts.”

It’s not a matter of being strong enough to ‘just trust’. There is much that needs to be in place for a woman to be able to ‘go there’ and listen to her body, and in many situations, things aren’t in place for that to occur. Most women have no knowledge that this is even important, which is not their fault. If we go back to the analogies in this quote : if a woman is frightened and feels out-of-control and has no support or understanding of what is happening to her…her heart rate will change, her breathing rate will change, her tolerance to pain can change, and her ability to draw on her innate birthing wisdom may be compromised too.

Taking care in our messages to women

This is why both Deb and I have concerns about the potential for certain quotes to be taken out of context, and the incorrect (or rather, incomplete) messages they then convey about birth.  We know many wonderful natural birth advocates who use Laura Stavoe Harm’s quote, and we honour the wonderful work they do…and we also know that they do not ever mean any harm by it.  We know that they are trying to remind women that birth is not something to be scared of, and to garner their inner strength that can often get lost in the disempowering maternal health system of today.

We hope that in expressing our views about this much-loved quote that we are bringing to the fore what it is like for a traumatised woman who is struggling to find validation for her experience.

We need to take care with every message we deliver to women about birth, and ensure that each message honours that every woman at every moment is making the best decisions she can for herself and her child, with the information she has.

And the truth is…that can take a mountain of strength.

©Melissa Bruijn and Debby Gould, Birthtalk 2010

Image ©Deirdrie Cullen

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Keeping the silence

I can completely understand that women such as Ms Woof keep their silence about traumatic birth.  My own first birth was also 10 years ago, and also very traumatic.  I had a healthy son, but the birth had a ripple effect that made its way out into our whole life.  Any attempt to discuss it was met with ‘you should be grateful’ and ‘just move on’.   So silence, to me, makes sense.

However, whilst Emily Woof’s article is well written & brutally honest, it is also sadly lacking in important information, leading to misperceptions and incorrect conclusions being drawn by herself, and thus, the reader.

And this is not her fault.  Her births were both horrific.  And she has every right to feel traumatised by them, and to need to process and heal emotionally from such experiences.  I am shocked by how bad they were.

Let’s really be honest about childbirth

This article, however, is not about honesty in what childbirth is.  It is about what childbirth was like for Emily Woof.  And, more importantly, it is about a woman not even given the time and space to grieve for her births, or any acknowledgment that she would have something to grieve.  It is also about poor care.  I am astounded at the care she received in her second birth, and saddened by the care she received in her first birth.

For me, all this article does is raise questions.  And the answers to these questions may change the way Emily Woof would write her article if she was given the opportunity to ask these questions herself.

Inappropriate education

With her first birth, her antenatal education was not appropriate.  She was told birth was about remaining in control (it’s not). And that a birth plan would take care of that (it won’t).   And then told by her childbirth educator that ‘when she’s screaming for drugs, it’s not what she really wants.’  We find ourselves shaking our heads at this ‘advice’.  Note the teacher’s use of ‘when’ she’s screaming…not ‘if’.  What a lack of confidence in Ms Woof and the birthing process, by assuming that she would not only definitely need drugs, but that she would be screaming for them.  This does not demonstrate that the teacher had much confidence in Ms Woof’s body to do its job.  It’s important to know that when a woman feels safe and supported, the body provides hormones that act as natural pain killers (see Dr Sarah Buckley’s work on this). It also appears that the teacher hasn’t provided Ms Woof or her husband information on how to promote and enhance this hormonal help.

The teacher’s comments also suggest that Ms Woof will not know her own needs in labour. What a disrespectful assumption, and how frightening to know that those around you are being coached to disregard what you say at a time when you are incredibly vulnerable and dependent.  Plus, the ‘screaming for drugs’ imagery does not create a positive picture of birth.   And would have most likely scared the wits out of Ms Woof.  Which it – along with some other scare-mongering – seemed to do, so effectively that it had her booking out of the hospital and booking in for a homebirth.

She says herself that the reason they chose a homebirth was to ‘side-step the evils of hospital altogether’.  So she was now making decisions from fear.  Understandable, as the hospital had not given her and her husband any reason to not be fearful.  But making decisions from fear is a disempowering situation, rather than making decisions based on knowledge.

Continually let down

And then, when she hired a homebirth midwife, she was let down here, too.  Ms Woof expressed her concerns about the size of her baby, an understandable worry, especially as she had felt concerned that she was quite small.  But rather than being given validation for her concerns and reassured with further information ,she is admonished for not trusting nature.  Fact is – why should she trust nature, if the midwife hasn’t given her any information – factual information – that would enable nature to earn that trust?  So that worry about the baby’s size, rather than being put to rest, now lies uneasily in the back of Ms Woof’s mind.  And, I can imagine, a bigger worry – that she is not being listened to.  That her midwife is not taking her seriously.  That she cannot ‘be herself’ and ask the questions she needs to ask, and open up to the tiniest of concerns that she may have.  If she cannot be herself during the pregnancy with this midwife…what will it be like in birth, when we are required to be the most vulnerable many of us have ever been?  Birth needs to be an ‘opening up’, but already, Ms Woof was required to close herself up, and not, as she described it, ‘question the faith’.

This brings more questions to mind.  Did this midwife enable Ms Woof and her husband to work through the fears raised by the hospital antenatal education?  Was she given the chance to see that birth is not about control, but about surrendering control, once we are in a safe space & have correct information?  And did Ms Woof, indeed, feel safe?  She dilated beautifully.  Her body did an amazing job.  And then progress stopped.  To me, I can see many reasons why this might have happened.  The most obvious may be that perhaps Ms Woof was not in a position to ‘open up’, emotionally and physiologically, when she was being ill-supported.  Who would want to open up to a birth carer who pooh-poohs a woman’s fears about birth?

My first baby didn’t slip out either.  I laboured for 30 hrs, and also felt like I would crack open.  That is horrific to live through.  I have so much empathy for Ms Woof, in going through that, and without good support from her carer.  How frightening for her husband, too, to find the midwife standing at a loss in the kitchen.     Fact is – most babies don’t slip out.  My second child slid in and out, in and out, in and out, for 2 hours before she emerged, all 9 pound 7 oz of her.  Did Ms Woof’s midwife tell her that this was a possibility?  If not, she was misinformed, and misled, to believe that her baby would slide out.   I had hoped that mine would…but luckily I had access to a wealth of information and knew that babies often did the ‘in and out thing’.  And I did not tear, even though she was so big.  I think it was the sliding in and out for so long, and the fact that I felt so safe – I just stretched gently.  It is not Ms Woof’s fault that she did not have this information.  But her midwife failed her.

I also have experienced the situation of lying in the ward afterwards (after my first birth) in pain, not being able to pick up my baby.  It is such a difficult, heart-wrenching situation.  I am horrified that Ms Woof was reprimanded by the nurse about not changing the nappy.  Where was the kindness, and caring, and nurturing of a new mother?  She had not done anything wrong, except perhaps add to the workload of a possibly overloaded nurse.  But again – that is not Ms Woof’s fault.

What is ‘natural’ in birth?

I can understand Ms Woof’s wrestle with herself about birth being a natural thing to do.  But being unsupported during pregnancy and birth is not natural.  It is usual in our society…but not natural.  Her body was doing a beautiful job, and then seemed not to continue to progress. Why? Was it that she wasn’t supported emotionally in the journey and her body did not feel safe to open? It would make sense, as this is a protective and normal response of the body if the mother is not feeling safe. Or perhaps less likely, but still a possibility -  was there a reason that her body ceased further progression to protect the wellbeing of mother or baby? Either way her body was doing what is designed to do and in no way failing.

And yes, her son had the cord wrapped tightly around his neck.  She was told that if he had come out normally, he would have been strangled.  And the result of receiving this news makes her feel like a failure for not being in tune with her body.  Understandably so…but there are some facts missing.  In most cases, babies born with the cord around their necks are completely ok.  The midwife usually just unwraps it before the rest of the baby is born.   It is very rare for a baby to die from cord entanglement.  In a paper presented in Vancouver, at the 15th World Congress on Ultrasound in Obstetrics and Gynecology in 2005, all births between 1988 – 2003 in a tertiary medical centre were studied.  The conclusion drawn from the study was that ‘Nuchal cord is not associated with adverse perinatal outcome.’[i]

Of course, hindsight is a great thing, and we don’t know that the baby would have been ok.  But they don’t know that he wouldn’t have been ok either.

Evolution and death

And Ms Woof is right – our babies do not have a straight trajectory into the world.  And she is also right about evolution dictating that our pelvises become narrow so we could walk upright, and our skulls growing.  But evolution also covered that, by giving us a shorter gestational period, so we could birth our babies before they become too large to fit.  If evolution had stuffed it up…we wouldn’t be here.

And yes, death has always shadowed birth…but you need to look at it in context.  Right now, most women in the western world are big, strong, nutritionally sound and have appropriate shelter, food and safety.  If we look at the eras Ms Woof looked at in her paragraph about ‘death and childbirth’: in the 1600’s, the average life expectancy was around 35, and it was, according to the British Library,  ‘an era of war, fire, plague and execution’.  The 19^th Century heralded the industrial revolution and, according to one source, ‘the impact it had on the general health and life expectancy of individuals was shocking’. In the early part of the 19th century the life expectancy in most parts of Britain was that of only 20.  There were outbreaks of cholera and typhus, due to the slums, overcrowding, contaminated wells and lack of sewage system etc.  No wonder, as Ms Woof notes, women were preparing for death alongside preparing for birth.  But our world is vastly different from those time periods, so perhaps we shouldn’t look to these eras to confirm the nature of birth in the 21^st century.

In the 21^st century the risk to women in birth has reduced as women’s general health and wellbeing has improved. For the minority of women who with good support and care will still have a problematic birth their outcomes have been vastly improved with the use of antibiotics and blood transfusions. And for a small percentage who, regardless of their support and care, require a caesarean section this can be a lifesaving procedure.

Ms Woof acknowledges her gratitude to medical intervention for keeping her children and herself alive.  I understand her position.  And yes, she was saved from her first experience…but I wonder if she would have even got into the position of needing to be rescued if she had received better education, information and support in the first place – even before she got to the homebirth midwife.

A horrific situation

And on that note, I would like to turn to Ms Woof’s second birth.  Rather than looking at the horrific situation she was in, bleeding profusely, without anyone realising, hovering close to death while her husband held their newborn for three hours, without word of her safety, (what a terrible situation – absolutely shocking for them both) I want to go back to the beginning and ask some more questions.

First question – why was she offered a cervical sweep?  Why did the obstetrician ‘need’ to stimulate labour? Why did the doctor not trust that Ms Woof’s baby and her body would kickstart labour themselves?  They did the first time, no problem. It’s not as if she was overdue – she was on her due date.  According to Anne Deans, an obstetrician for Mother and Baby magazine, “Term babies are those who arrive any time between 37 and 42 weeks, not just on one specific date’.  So, what is the benefit to Ms Woof and her baby of being induced in this manner?  Was there some unmentioned high risk to mother or baby that required her to birth? Or more likely was this presented as an option to Ms Woof without a clear overview of the pros and cons associated?

Of great concern is the obstetrician’s apparent intent to rupture the membranes and her short-lived joy in doing so. Artificially rupturing membranes is a separate procedure to a ‘sweep’ and requires a woman to be given benefits and risks to make an informed decision. It is doubtful that this occurred with Ms Woof.

The beginning of the end

It appears that the whole debacle began when the cervical stretch occurred.  As Ms Woof herself says later, she had been haemorrhaging internally since the sweep.  But why is nobody questioning the fact that she had the sweep?  (not questioning Ms Woof – she would have gone along with the decision in good faith, understandably).  She wonders why it happened like that, and questions herself for not choosing an elective caesarean.  But was she given the opportunity to question the obstetrician for choosing an invasive procedure such as the sweep and rupture of membranes, in the first place?  And an elective caesarean is no guarantee of a good outcome.  For more information on the pros and cons of VBAC vs caesarean, see this section of the Cochrane Database, the very database that doctors themselves use.

I can understand the feeling of having let herself down after the first caesarean.  I felt that intensely, too, after my own.  But wanting to have a normal delivery next baby isn’t a bad thing to want.  We are physiologically primed to want to give birth naturally – even if she can’t fully explain why she wanted that natural birth, her body can…it knows that there are hormonal gifts from a natural, supported birth that help with bonding, breastfeeding and wellbeing postnatally, and it wants them.

(And knowing this information could have helped in a caesarean too – these hormones can be replicated postnatally, which can assist in bonding, breastfeeding, and a better emotional outcome.  I didn’t know that for my own caesarean either.)

Too high expectations?

I do not believe that Ms Woof ‘set herself up’ to be let down by putting herself under enormous pressure.  Why should she not want a better experience than the first time, and why should she not want a natural birth?  The problem was not Ms Woof’s desires, but the lack of support for helping her meet her needs in an appropriate way.

It makes complete sense that Ms Woof would need to mourn for the birth she wanted so much.  And she was not asking for too much – just to be given appropriate information, and be nurtured and cared-for and supported.

Ms Woof is right – no doctor can predict how a birth will turn out.  And it is hard to know how best to prepare…unless you have access to the right education and support.  Which I do not believe Ms Woof had.

A woman wronged

And, to conclude, I think that Ms Woof has come to the wrong conclusion.

It was not her expectations of birth that were wrong…it was her experiences of birth.  And through no fault of her own.

Why shouldn’t a woman expect to have a positive birth, whether natural birth or not?  And why shouldn’t a woman expect to have a natural birth?  It is usually the most straightforward and generally safest way to get a baby out.  Her expectations were understandable and appropriate.  But her information, education, support and care, in both cases, weren’t.

Her birth experiences were wrong. She was treated wrongly, given wrong information, wrong support, wrong management of her labours.  It should not have been so.  The elements were not in place to afford Ms Woof the realisation of her expectations.

And as I said before…that is not her fault.

This article is about a woman wronged.  And for that, I am so sad.  I commend Ms Woof on having the courage to speak out.  I regret that there are so many questions that arise from her story.  And I hope that, like me, with acknowledgment, information and support she can come to a place of peace, no matter how hard won, with her births.

©Melissa Bruijn and Debby Gould, Birthtalk.org 2010

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Remember a year or so ago, when that QANTAS jet had a gaping hole in it and performed an emergency landing?  The TV news footage showed the passengers arriving in Melbourne on another jet, and embracing their loved ones.  Most were crying, some were shaking, and all were visibly affected by the experience.

Passengers told of the few minutes when they wondered if they would die, as the plane plummeted 19, 000 feet, their voices choked with emotion as they recalled their extreme fear, panic and anxiety.  And I imagined these people going home with their families, who welcomed them at the airport with outstretched arms.  They would likely be cosseted and fussed over, offered comforting food and drink, and their moments of terror openly listened to with shock and interest and appropriate “Oh My God’s” from listeners as they talked about their experience.

But would anyone say to them, “At least you didn’t die.”, and try to shoosh them up if they tried to talk about it?  Would anyone tell them, “Well, I understand that plane trip didn’t go quite how you’d planned, but all’s well that end’s well, hey?”. Of course not.  And would family understand if these people were a bit shaky for a while afterwards, and needed to feel safe?  I’d say they would.

But imagine the same scene after a woman has a traumatic birth.  Is there anyone waiting for her with outstretched arms?  Generally not.  Women after a traumatic birth are usually not cosseted and fussed over, or comforted beyond a perfunctory ‘there, there’.

As a community, we seem quite comfortable with telling a woman traumatised from her birth, “At least you have a healthy baby.”, and placating her with, “I understand that birth didn’t go quite how you’d planned, but all’s well that ends well, hey?”.    And then she has to learn how to look after a child, cope with sleep deprivation –  usually without the hormones designed to support her with this due to the trauma of the birth – and tackle a mountain of laundry, cooking and home duties. Welcome to motherhood.

So how can we compare the possibility of death by plane crash to the meeting of one’s healthy child through birth?  Best thing to do here, is look at the definition of a traumatic event, and what response warrants a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

According to this Manual, the stressor or event that causes PTSD should involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or damage to self or others. And the person’s response should involve intense fear, helplessness or horror.  Note that it says “actual OR THREATENED”.

So,,,and this is really important… even if everything SEEMS completely ok to an outsider during the birth… if a woman PERCEIVES that she or her baby is threatened with damage; or FEELS horror, fear and helplessness at a procedure…even if this procedure is ROUTINE to medical staff; she can experience that as a traumatic event.

This is REGARDLESS of her level of pain relief at the time.

It is REGARDLESS of the fact that she and her baby leave the hospital alive and physically healthy.

The truth about birth, traumatic or otherwise, is this : we do not just leave our birth at the hospital.  Birth’s impact has a ripple effect on a woman’s whole life.  If it was a positive experience, then that radiates outwards like warm sunshine on everything that happens postnatally.  But if it was a negative experience, then it can feel like a domino effect – the woman keeps getting knocked down with every challenge.  She is ‘behind the eight ball’ to start with, and that ripple effect means that the birth’s impact spreads to all aspects of her life.

But this does not stop people telling a woman to just ‘get over it’.  Why?

Perhaps we need to look again at that dramatic plane flight.  The big question is…why it is understood by virtually everyone that those passengers might need some time to process that event?  The answer is : because we EXPECT air travel to be safe, easy, simple, and uneventful.  And when it is NOT those things, we understand that it might have an impact.

But with birth, most people EXPECT it to be painful, horrible, unbearable, out-of-control, and unpleasant.  That’s what it’s like in the movies & TV shows, and often in the stories passed down through generations.  So when a woman expresses that her birth was difficult, or traumatic, our culture’s response is : so?  Isn’t that just birth?

And that’s the biggest myth of all – that birth is bad. But that’s just not true. The way most women experience birth in our culture IS bad…and that’s not their fault.   But birth itself is not bad.  Unfortunately, most people in our culture have either had bad births, seen bad births, or been birthed in a traumatic way themselves and had the story regaled to them for years.

Birth can be good.  Which can be a hard thing for a woman traumatised by her birth to hear. But really, it explains one of the reasons that it hurts so much emotionally when a birth is traumatic…because IT’S NOT MEANT TO BE THAT WAY.  Nature didn’t intend it to be that way.  But because most births in our culture ARE that way, it is very difficult for most people to ‘come to the party’ and admit that maybe your birth COULD have an impact on you.  Because then they’d have to face the multitude of myths and misconceptions thrown their way by the media and family horror stories over the years.  And that’s too hard.  A woman’s distress post birth can cause massive discomfort in others who need the myth to continue.

If we return to the plane flight analogy again…imagine the passenger’s family and friends perhaps NOT acknowledging that the experience was tumultuous and fraught with potential disaster.  Imagine if you had lived through that flight, and a few days later the people around you are saying, “Are you STILL going on about that? Can you just move on?  You’re fine, you’re healthy, so what’s the problem?”, and meanwhile you are struggling with flashbacks, anxiety, and a need to debrief and talk about what happened, to try and make sense of it…but no-one would acknowledge your situation.  Sound isolating?

The truth about traumatic birth is…validation is difficult to find in our culture. The experience of trauma after birth can be intensely isolating if it goes unacknowledged.  So it is up to us to re-educate ourselves and those around us, so they are able to support women in the upheaval and aftermath of birth trauma.

If we do not just leave our birth at the hospital, if we take it with us into our postnatal life, then it matters when it’s not right and it’s not good and it doesn’t feel safe.

Just this simple acknowledgement can be the beginning of a healing journey for a woman impacted by her birth.  It may be her Boarding Pass to feeling supported, validated, and understood.  And it may lead to her maiden flight of embracing motherhood as she had always wanted.

©Birthtalk2008, Updated 2010

Everyone has an opinion on birth, and especially on the existence (or not!) of traumatic birth…and from our Ministers in Parliament, down to the local check-out chick at the supermarket, everyone feels entitled to share their opinion with the world.  And that’s because everyone was, at some stage, born!  Everyone has a relationship with ‘birth as they know it”, often developed through a combination of tv sitcoms, romantic comedy movies, horror stories told by friends, and family legends passed down through generations.

The lies that abound are endless, the myths are rarely challenged, and the misperceptions are sadly maintained and perpetuated through lack of awareness.  And the internet is buzzing with online versions of these untruths.

We’ve read chat forums that continue the tradition, telling women who are suffering from birth trauma that the most important thing in the end is a healthy baby, that their relationship is now doomed for keeps, and that they should stop whinging and think about women who have it worse than they do. Sigh.  There is much work to be done.

We have begun this blog to try and address the sea of untruths that spans our world.  These lies and myths about traumatic birth are damaging. They prevent women (and men) from processing and healing.   And they have the potential to – and sometimes do – destroy families.

Winston Churchill once said, “The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.”
The truth about traumatic birth IS incontrovertible.  Birth trauma is real.  It is researched, documented.  And birth trauma is also largely avoidable.  Considering how widespread birth trauma is, this is a very sad truth.

We, as a culture, need to acknowledge the presence and prevalence of Birth Trauma in our community.  There is too much traumatic birth (current stats show 1 in 3 women are reporting a traumatic birth[i], and this well-regarded study was undertaken in Brisbane, Australia).

This is what women need to know…along with certain health professionals, well-meaning partners and mothers-in-laws and even people at the check-out at the shops :

Traumatic birth is not normal birth.  And that is the truth.

And if women are not having normal births, we need to offer them support, and understanding, and a chance to be heard.

Gandhi said, “Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear.”   This blog is our way of sweeping away those cobwebs of ignorance that abound about traumatic birth, in order to let the truth shine through, and support the healing process of wounded women everywhere.

We hope you’ll join us here!

©Birthtalk.org 2010